"Should we preserve things for about 100 years, or should we go back 650 years and unearth something that can be used in the present?"

Izumi (MINOTAUR INST. Designer) Since I started working with Azuma Ryo and Ryosokuin Temple, I have come to believe that the fashion and culture I envision are originally found in temples and Japan, and I am expressing this concretely through sessions. First of all, please tell us about the background of the various initiatives that Azuma Ryo is currently working on at Ryosokuin Temple.

Learning about the history of Kenninji Temple, which dates back to the Kamakura period, and the traditions of Ryosokuin Temple within it, I've noticed many fascinating things. Ryosokuin Temple has played a variety of roles over its 650-year history, and those roles have changed over the years. At times, it has been dedicated to academics, while at other times it played a political role, closely connected to the shogunate. And, little by little, I've begun to see through historical documents that it has also served as a cultural salon, similar to today's schools and art museums. While the Ito family has lived at Ryosokuin Temple since my grandfather's time, the word "tradition" can easily lead to the illusion that the culture that began at that time has continued since the temple's founding. In other words, the part that my grandfather took charge of and developed is merely a point in history.

Izumi : I see.

Azuma Ryo: At first, I thought I would continue to carry on that "point" without wavering. For example, I would try to carry on my grandfather's management methods and his way of interacting with people. But the more I traced back into history, the more I realized that the point wasn't actually a straight line, but spread out in many different directions. Historically, what my grandfather did was only one point, not a comprehensive one, so I gradually realized that simply carrying on that wasn't enough. The temple's existence, especially during my grandfather's generation, was based on postwar culture, and activities were centered on parishioners. But in the coming era, being bound by the idea of ​​parishioners as an institution will narrow our perspective. So, rather than just passing on the traditions of the past from my grandfather to my father and then to me, we also need to work to open it up to younger people.

Azuma Ryo : Take zazen. In my grandfather's time, ordinary people didn't just drop in to practice it. Amid this trend, I began to think about how I could broaden it to the general public. In doing so, I tried to incorporate not only zazen but also various other aspects, such as yoga, shojin ryori (vegetarian cuisine), creative activities, and pottery, while developing and refining my activities. While each culture and shojin ryori (vegetarian cuisine) has its roots in ancient times, I realized that the history of its current form doesn't seem to be that long. Similarly, the samue (work clothes) may seem like a standard, but upon further investigation, this isn't necessarily the case. Should I preserve something that's been around for about 100 years, forever? Or, conversely, should I go back 650 years and unearth something that can be applied to the present? Thinking about this, I became interested in drawing out the dots. The underlying idea was that "tradition is not simply inheriting what you inherited from your parents' generation." From my parents' perspective, it's a nuisance and a constant battle, but I always try to think that even the next generation of monks will see that because that culture was spread in the 2020s, it's now easier to do things and that there has been some development.

Izumi: I feel like you spoke for me about what I think about clothing. I felt that this story is very relevant to parents and children, as well as to those who inherit the family name, and the conviction that comes with inheriting the essence of a particular industry.

Matsuyama (MINOTAUR INST. collaboration creator) Izumi-san was talking about how "because fashion repeats itself, how can we combine respect for the past with what we can do now?" I thought that respect was about 100 or 200 years ago, but Azuma Ryo-san said 650 years ago, and I thought that with such a difference in length, the way we show respect changes and the sense of the scale of time is completely different. We also try to respect the past, but given what we're usually involved in, I felt that we don't go that deep.

Azuma Ryo: However, there are good and bad things about being so long. For example, when we talk about an event that has been going on for a long time, it often sounds like "It hasn't changed at all for 650 years!", and it often seems as if it has been going on for 650 years. Because the history is so long, some parts of it become blurred, and that's also what makes it difficult.

Izumi : I see.

Azuma Ryo: What's really interesting is that there come moments when the dots from various periods in history, such as the 100-year, 400-year, or even 650-year history of the temple, and the dots from 2,500 years ago when Buddhism began, start to look like a line. At those times, when I see a sense of unwavering confidence, a line that makes me think, "I can do this," that history has encouraged me and given me a sense of support. I've had the experience of starting something new and people around me finding it hard to accept or expressing doubts, but finding some points from the past has given me great courage, and I've been able to endure without wavering until the doubts seep in.

Izumi : In fashion, too, there are moments when you can be certain of the existence of answers that have no answers, and when you can be certain of that, your confidence and core values ​​are not swayed by other people's information or opinions. I feel that knowing this is also a form of motivation.

Azuma Ryo : Perhaps that's true. You move forward with the joy of being able to reach that point. And that joy gives you the confidence to move forward even further.